Recent comments by: jack tancock
Colin, I would like to see your dream of farmers uniting and accruing more clout to deal with the ongoing fringe dwelling social campaigns against agriculture and livestock industries. I have no faith in it happening.
Farmers in Australia these days, are too busy beating hairy chests about how one is smarter than the other, or more to the point, how dumb the other guy is, for not embracing some new ideology or fake panacea. I think they will need to be much further down on their knees before they re-awaken, to just how insignificant they are, fighting it out on their own, as individuals.
Agribuzz with David Leyonhjelm
David, Corporations do not have a good record at self regulation. They are like rugby league players. They build up their muscle for one reason. That is to be able to crush anyone who gets in their way to the ball. Without rules and a ref, rugby league, like business, would be a total blood bath where it is winning at any cost including demolition of every competitor. So your assumption that "some businesses will always fall" without regulation, is just a pipe dream. It would be utter chaos and disaster.
This issue is one more reason why Australian farmers need more of their number participating in a single unified industrial organisation. It is a case where we need to stand up to the radical and economically irresponsible elements in society. It is almost impossible to do it as individuals, and needs a unified mass farmer only, organisation to take on the real meat industry haters.
Oh dear boris, looks like you have taken the sucker bait. bushie is no free market ideologue. He is just a rarified air hypocrite who believes in loading up business owners and particularly farmers, with every imaginable burden to protecting workers standards of living. Have you not read his posts about how laborers are entitled to get artificially inflated wages and conditions (and how it is their God given right regardless of how much cheaper that commodity could be sourced under a deregulated labor market)? He thinks business owners are a good old free feed trough to have ones snout in.
Freshy, your comments are a refreshing change. Hopefully many people will read and act on them.
Sly, if it sounds too good to be true it probably is. Look beyond the end of your nose.
bushie, why do you never demand that Australia import labor from the lowest paying parts of the world and do away with all labor minimum pay and conditions? Until then you are just a farmer hating embarrassment and hypocrite.
Yes I saw the news item and was pleased. In this paper today we see a much greater example of dairy farmers success via unity and hard work. It is the story about the NZ Dairy Co-op, Fonterra capturing 37% of the world dairy export market. So Australia has but a small sample of what we could have, if we focused even more on grower unity. Let us get really serious now and not too carried away with kicking just one goal for the whole game.
Talk is certainly cheap on this site Jock.
A matter of opinion
I know where you are coming from Logic and I agree with what you say about the crowd that can't be bothered to turn up for the game. It is a major issue, but not only in the farm sector. That is why so many "rent a crowd" type action groups get so much traction in our Country, on nonsense platforms, especially using the social media network. Apathy is too wide spread. So our industry gets criticized for a knee jerk reaction after an event that we failed to prepare for, if only the lazy apathetic majority had been in on the policy process initially.
Jock Munro, what you say is ever so clearly being shown up every day in our economy via examples like the massive market power of two local mega corporations like Coles and Woolies, who trample all over growers and other suppliers. Yet somehow we have a handful of delusional grain growers, (or maybe some are really merchants?), who think they, as minuscule players, can dictate terms to multi national mega corporations and overseas governments who are really dictating the terms of the trade. If that was not true, why do the big guys like ADM always want to get bigger? Answer = market power.
I believe David Sackett is right. The main reason why corporate's can not succeed in farming here is the inflated input and supply chain costs, because of the impact on them of the Industrial Award system of wages and other impediments to productivity. Just look at what our Industrial Awards and Unions have done to our manufacturers. They could not survive without mega billion dollar Government donations or subsidies. Family farmers on the other hand have for years provided their labour at well below the Unions rates. Yet even they are now failing.
Geronimo, if we are all going to be highly moralistic about Government support, let us be fair and even handed about it. The highest level of support our Government hands out is in the laws which guarantee workers their pay and conditions. Remember that the rest of our economy, meaning contractors, sub contractors, business owners, investors, have to sell their goods and services in a deregulated market where they meet the full impact of 3rd world wages and costs while having to pay effective subsidies to all workers in Australia. That is real support. How are your morals now?
Why complicate the ways to fix farm industry survival? As long as the Government forces farmers to survive with unregulated global lowest prices on sales and regulated inflated prices on inputs and supply chain costs no amount of funding will help.
Just get net income on farms back into profit and those profits can fund all the infrastructure and growth needs, just as they did for 150 years, prior to 1980.
To do this either deregulate all costs or hand back the costs of current regulations to growers in any form you like, and let farmers do the rest for you.
Chick, apart from a very small minority it is not in a farmers nature to ask Governments or anybody for help. However, let us all say it loud and clear we have had a gutful of Government double standards. We are now fully deregulated and fully exposed to the lowest commodity prices in the world and YET we are exposed to the highest input and supply chain costs in the world courtesy of Government regulations that make it that way. The Government and the urban public cant have it both ways. If they want industry to prop up their incomes via inflated awards, they must pay compensation.
History has shown us that corporatization of Co-ops may allow many opportunities for the new structure but provide nothing new or better to its number one client, and owner, which is the grain grower. Corporations' objectives are not required to align with clients' interests, and seldom do. In fact they generally set the client up as the opposing team in business. Let us just look at the way Wesfarmers, (an ex Co-op), introduced the $1/litre retail milk. Clearly targeting the weakest party, the dairy farmer. Get ready for lots of that if CBH goes public.
Jock is absolutely right about the "big lie" over deregulation creating more buyers and therefore more competition. It is so simple to see that the numbers which changed by removing single desk were the seller numbers. They went from 1 to 25,000 - 35,000. The "real buyer numbers" have not gone up at all. We always had traders in the market, as we had processors and stock feeders. The only difference was the traders had to buy from "1" grower via Single Desk and now the growers have been divided the traders have the growers competing against each other. That is the only change to competition.
Very interesting. Hopefully there are some WA gung ho growers reading this and starting to understand that WA wheat is not quite the be all and end all they believe it is. Millers and processors actually need qualities that WA do not have! CBH, as a grower interest group are doing the right thing by their coop members in becoming a broader church.
The complaints coming from SA are minor compared with the shouting that would come from WA if ever they were silly enough to privatize CBH.
Tony, in general. I compliment you on what you have said, in particular about input and supply chain costs. However by you rating the loss of the export single desk and WA Grain Pool as major cost savings, you leave yourself open to unnecessary dispute, because the input cost and supply chain cost issue is way more damaging, as you virtually said yourself. I also agree with the comments by Unhappy cocky on your grains section. They are carried away with ideology and spend most of their time on inflammatory porky pies which do nothing for your membership aspirations or PGA's general credibility
Until Farming in Australia is allowed the full benefit of a free uncorrupted market, and as long as society maintains their access to inflated, subsidised and regulated labour markets and environmental imposts on (export) industries, there will be a need for some form of compensation and reconstruction to farmers. The ARDB may well be the best way to meet this need.
With an appeal now lodged against the court decision, it may well be that the pro GM crop people have crowed prematurely?
The issue we really need fairness and justice on has little to do with GM and more to do with any negligent action by one property owner that results in another property owner, having their own produce or land contaminated in any way that reduces the commercial value of their produce or their producing asset, the land.
Evidence of the fact that family farmers are just pawns for the mega corporations and Governments to use and abuse. The PGA also has a lot to answer for inflaming and politicising the situation to pretend that they have more than a couple of hundred farmers as financial members..
Andrew Weidemann, very good of you to worry about proper logistics management at grain export terminals. Did you not support the demise of previous Single Desk grain marketing arrangements? You had much better and more efficient export logistics in place in that system.
Now we have a dog's breakfast.
NSW Farmer, no matter how well meaning you are, your comments on equalization of price on all wheat to all growers are not helping you or anybody. Please try to think more robustly. SD did not mean same deal for every farmer. It meant best possible deal for Aussie wheat growers collectively with very good mechanisms to sheet home differences in individual quality, storage, freight and other supply chain issues to each individual. It also allowed for individual grower innovations including doing their own hedging via derivatives. Importantly it reduced middlemen margins taken from growers.
D8, your answer in no way answers your assertion that under any circumstances the removal of SD could have altered a global market by $150/t. You are just a snake oil salesman and of course will say anything regardless of its validity.
So in the absence of a factual response toro you can only character assassinate? No surprise there.
You silly buggers had every detail of bulk handlers costs when you had Wheat SD. Now without SD they don't have to tell you what they do not want to. Serves you right.
D8, took you long enough and all you can come up with is a pathetic attempt at humour.
But D8, you have just been caught out claiming that removal of Single Desk caused a $150/t rise in global grain prices in 2008. You now add to that monstrous claim the fact that the $150/t was transferred to ES. So what you are now saying, in contradiction to your other claim, is that removal of SD did not drop prices, but that it was just siphoned off. Do you actually realize how incredible your snake oil lines are?
Em, how can you say we have a labour shortage with unemployment in reality at about 10-20% and youth unemployment at the high end. It is a mind set Abetz is talking about. We used to have it before the growth in the welfare industry. It is amazing how motivated we were to get a job anywhere when we knew we had to rely on our own income. Now via welfare, we have handed over our jobs to our overseas neighbours. With that went our wealth creation. Unless we follow the Abetz philosophy it will get a lot worse and throwing more welfare at it will hasten our demise.
Don't be so presumptuous Em. What Eric Abetz has said is music has said is music to the ears of many.
Pity more of our leaders didn't have the guts to be so honest. It is about time more people started working for a living instead of voting for a living.
Inverell, you make a valid point based on many past experiences. How often do Governments make a big media splash about a public help program, get the media peddling it as some form of panacea when in reality it is often nothing like it is promoted to be. Try past drought plans, NDIS, Gonski, NBN, Carbon Tax for Global Cooling, and so on.
ACCC are a toothless tiger and useless at bringing competition benefits to us. It has not been able to do anything to stop the 2 big supermarket moguls and oil companies raking out exorbitant margins from consumers and suppliers. We have plenty of our own oil like USA but we pay nearly twice as much as them for petrol. Our producers get no subsidies yet we import food from countries where the producers receive massive subsidies. They discourage local companies expanding but welcome foreign companies, even with criminal records? We could save Australia and a lot of taxes by closing them down.
Since when did you give a toss about farmers, bushie? We could not care less about the main stream ABC. Anything good they do broadcast to the bush can easily be taken up by the others anyway. I say save us the money and sell them off.
Tigerdicky, I think you left two letters off the second word in your post at 1.30pm 21/5. The two letters missing are the letters "in".
Cattleman you are a champion, but sadly a dying breed. You being replaced by welfare gold diggers, who would rather demolish their Country than build it.
How do you think I feel? I am 74 and because I worked long hours in my own business, didn't retire till I was 70, and saved up just enough to own my little own house and live very meagerly off the interest of my savings, I get nothing from the Government, either before or after the budget. My income was slashed years ago when the interest rates were driven down post GFC. I am sick of hearing all the bleating from people who are getting heaps of help and realistically losing bugger all from their welfare payments. The worst off cop an extra few hundred $'s PA in fuel and doctors and benefits.
I am a supporter of Ted O'Brien's posts usually and am again here but take issue with his statement about wage earners paying for their aged pension via taxes. Aged Pension at about $22k p/a requires about $650k invested today to earn $22k p/a on fixed deposit. Even at 9% super on average wage over 45 years only earns $200k and any tax put aside by Govt after provision of all services leaves virtually nothing for Pension or we would not now be in such debt. So Pensions come out of current and not past taxes. Therefore I say average wage earner pension is not paid for by current pensioners?
Don Seaton is so insightful. Even if the handful of intrepid but stupid ideologues for the mythical free trade still can't see it, the majority of farmers and the wider population can. Farmonline surveys show that. They show that if ADM had been allowed to get ownership of GC, our farmers and processors alike would have been cut off at the knees. While we need a review of the GC business and control over export terminals, at least we have got time to do that now. If ADM had won that opportunity was gone for ever. Start by looking at the successful co-op model of CBH WA..