Agribuzz with David Leyonhjelm
Headbuzz, I have asked the big mouth phantom farmer haters to give us a list of the claimed true handouts that farmers receive. They have never been able to do so. The best they can ever come up are false things like off road diesel fuel rebates or single desk marketing which of course are not Govt handouts or subsidies in any shape or form. The farmer hand out lies are a weak attempt to add to the list of sad people who are envious of the farmers' "get up and have a go mentality".
Its OFF SHORE nations Hydatid. It is the countries closest to us to our north, north east & north west. In those countries, they have millions of people much cleverer than us who have seen how we have become lazy & greedy and reliant on hand outs to survive. They are more highly productive & get only market rates for their toil. So all the investments are going to them to make & do all that which we used to do. Then they sell it to us cheaper than we can make or do it. Our savings are all being drained away to them. Soon, when our last cent is gone, we collapse. O/S win. Get the picture now?
When will people like David get off their backside and take on the real issues confronting farmers and all business in Australia. We have regulations causing the highest costs of creating anything from primary produce to office partitions. Our business is being taken over by off shore nations who make everything we once made, at a fraction of our costs & take our money. Due to crazy Aust regulations, we are transferring all wealth creating entities o/s so fast that our economy must soon collapse. When will David put energy into a fix for this catastrophe which is coming at us @ 100 mph
Very insightful comments Grumpy. Hopefully David will learn from them.
Although I find many flaws in the application of your stated ideology David, I would not put my life on the line to oppose it, if you could bring about absolute market deregulation. That is, after you have got it signed in blood, that there was to be absolutely no form of corruption in any market for the production and sale of Australian primary produce, I would accept it. That means, after you have removed all regulations affecting production and delivery costs, and all dumped competing products due to foreign Govt intervention or "slavery", and all social costs. Don't call me till then.
Having read about your policy to free or open up gun laws, legalise drugs, and homosexual marriages, and open our borders purely on a mercenary basis, I am not sure how fit you are to become the public hero on Government morality? That is not to say we don't need to address Government morality. We do. I would prefer the current elected PM over you for that task despite his human failings. And lets face it, he and his Coalition got genuinely elected, compared with you, under the LDP banner which got many donkey votes and got LP votes due to the word liberal cleverly woven into your name.
A matter of opinion
Thanks for your concern over the lack of farming confidence and profitability Andrew.
Apart from your angle, there is also the fact that farmers are regulated to pay the highest global input and supply chain costs (largely via the Industrial Awards System), and yet forced to take the totally unprotected and corrupted low global prices for what they produce. A little shift away from that inequitable status would improve things too.
In some ways you have a point Freshy but not totally. You are right to say farmers need to become a lot more unified in advocating on behalf of their industry. They need to stop treating each other as the enemy and focus on the real enemies. These include the factions who demand and sucker Governments into imposing the full inflated, artificial cost of regulations and rules on farmers P&L's, when they should be on the Government's welfare and environmental budgets. Our Farmers are the most efficient and highly productive in the world but weighed down with the full costs of urban demands.
You have contradicted yourself PayAttention. I said there was no bar against hedging under SD. You said I was wrong. Then you said you do not use derivatives. Your problem mate. The SD had no bar on growers using the futures derivatives market to forward hedge their sales to whoever, cash or pool. According to deregulate, if you do that you can fix your premium. So then it shouldn't matter how you sell your physical.
PayAttention, you had the exact same ability under Single Desk to hedge your sales as you do now. So that means, for the few who oppose SD, you had the same opportunity under SD to sell forward and lock in prices then as now, but more importantly, those not wanting to take the big risks of selling something they did not have in the silo, the SD did all the hedging for them. So that shoots all the nonsense arguments down in flames!
Dalby, I would add that the AWB Single Desk wheat marketing arrangement was the best and most effective farmer marketing scheme available anywhere in the globe for some 60 years. It was fully paid for by growers, and created the economy of scale that enabled individual growers to match it with the mega global trading corporations. It was so effective that the mega global trading corporations spent years and $billions in undermining it so they could divide our growers so as to get power over them, and have them competing against each other, as tiny weak negotiators. Back to 1920s now?
Out of the shadow
Mr Fitzgibbon, why is it you are so good at campaigning for free markets when the Unions from which you originate and by whom you are controlled in parliament, have absolutely the opposite mantra for yourselves?
If free markets work so well, why don't you start with your own side? When you get that one sorted, we will believe you. Until you are joking. Your lot were much more respected by farmers when you set up orderly marketing originally. Now you are no good to anyone.
Waste of time talking competition with the Governments of the last 20 years. All any of them have done is increase regulation levels on local business, especially farming.Now the vast majority of our once great primary industries have been regulated out of existence. Mean while our Governments have done virtually nothing about the unregulated and low quality standard produce and processed food flooding into Australia. Think of the contaminated frozen berries as a classic example. Like talking to a brick wall. Belatedly the Abbott Govt is axing some restrictions but is too little too late!
Andrew Norris also has some good comments on this issue in this web site. All should read it.
http://www.theland.com.au /blogs/a-matter-of-opinion/trusti ng-the-insurance-safety-net/27202 93.aspx
John Hine you could be further from the truth. Under the AWB SD, we were actually selling directly to end user customers. Today we are well removed from that relationship by selling most of our wheat to traders who traditionally resell numerous times en route to processors. The reason we could do that was the SD gave us the necessary volume and spread of wheat Categories & Grades to satisfy all the needs and delivery terms of end user customers. As individuals we are simply not able to satisfy the real customers' needs. Only by uniting together are we able to do so.
Have any of you so called animal welfare fringe dwellers considered the fact that overseas countries like China can process animals through their own facilities at a fraction of the cost of those in Australia. If they had to buy meat ex our facilities they would not buy from us, due to our exorbitant costs. It is welfare costs in Australia that are killing our killing industries just like it is killing all of our industries. I mean the inflated employee costs are virtually business paying the workers welfare benefits on a world free trade basis.
CQ, one big reason why the large reduction in numbers of farmers is the decline in profitability in primary production. Today it would take $1300/t to buy you what $150/t for wheat bought you in the 1950/60s. The fact that wheat is still only around $200/t farm gate means that profitability has declined by over 6 times over the last 60 years. At the same time as our wheat price has not moved really in actual $'s, minimum incomes of employees have risen from around $2k pa to $40k pa. That 20 fold increase has been forced on the costs of businesses like ours via regulation regardless of justice.
I give incognito 5 years maximum in the grain farming business unless a rich relation bequeaths him enough money to last a little longer.
WTF, I think you have made a very good assessment. As Mr Flugge said, the AWB people were never criminals. The wheat they sold had to be transported 800 klms under difficult conditions to get to Iraqi people. The AWB Staff were simply wheat grower servants making commercial decisions, which were necessary to achieve the sale and delivery of food, to the starving people of Iraq. As WTF has pointed out, Iraq was actually better governed under Saddam than it has been ever since. There has always been too much politics involved in this for fairness and justice to apply to honest AWB servants.
Seethelight, the buyers you talk about are just middlemen speculators in most cases. They get between the producer and the true buyer, a processor, who will add value and then sell new product. Each time a middleman (MM) gets involved, his fees/margins come out of the farmers margin. These players were always in the market, but under SD were mostly bypassed as the AWB sold more directly to processors. That process cuts MM costs and places the farmer in a stronger negotiating position. It also closes the gap between real buyers and growers & increases grower share of the $$s. So Jock is right.
The only competition grain traders favor is competition between farmers and farm produce service providers. As for competition between traders, just have a look at the size, financial power and number of multi-national grain traders today. Very few, compared with the hundreds of thousands of farmers all cutting each others throat on price and begging traders to take their farm produce. Who said farmers were smart? Well they used to be prior to about 2000- 2007.
The new boss is not even here yet and the client rip off has already started. It looks like we are about to be taken for everything we have and some more all over again.
What a joke. What Corporation is not under threat of take over? They all are. Particularly when their clients are ripe for the picking.
Trusting traders with your wheat in a pool they own is like leaving Dracula in charge of the blood bank. Look at Emerald's performance over the previous two harvests.
Deregul8, will never learn. So many people have given him so many logical corrections to his lack of logic and he still does not get it. The most obvious gaping hole in his argument is that the current users of CBH have not paid for CBH and are not entitled to share in 100% of the sale proceeds of the Co-op, if it was to demutualize. They want to steal what is not theirs. Those like D8 are blaming CBH for their own mismanagement and debt. Shows how much notice we in WA should take of them if they cant manage their own patch.
Once you "sell the farm" D8, in case you are not aware, your farm income stops forever. So a few lousy one off dollars on shares is soon gone and certainly is not renewable.
You are right about Emerald Love the country. They were run by a very mercenary trader and was also running a cash and options trading business in competition with its pools.
Mark Thiele is a different beast and his company are not running other trading activities according to their web site.
Australia has developed 95% of its current infrastructure in the grain industry while Single Desk marketing was in place. In that time, the number of farmers and tons of grain produced reached peaks not since bettered. Our share of global markets was higher than it is now. Our brand recognition was better and our reputation for quality control has never been bettered. Since SD farmer numbers and quality control have gone down and expansion in acres & production has faltered. It is wrong to say profitability has never been higher than today when mid 1900s saw wheat at $1200/t in todays $$s.
PayAttention, you could have shipped in containers under SD. You also could have hedged your wheat under SD. You also could have sold into the 10 million tonne domestic market, and shipped what you had over in containers, big guy. Anyway now that you say you are free to use containers how much have you sold that way?
Independent Farmer, if the rail believers are stuck in yesteryear, what do you call China and Japan, where they are shifting from road and air to rail. In case you had not noticed, China and its Asian neighbours are the fastest growing economies in the world. China has money coming out of its ears and is fast taking over Australian business and ex Aussie customers. Your statements about quality differentiation are laughable. We have now become dumper of undifferentiated bulk commodity in grain markets. Maybe you need to get out a bit more instead of gazing so much at your navel.
Deregul8, show us where there has been any new investment in grain rail infrastructure, or where any is planned as a result of deregulation.
Sooka-dereg-james, if deregulation is so much more profitable, tell us all why we have record high farm debt levels, and why investors are shunning farm investment and why we are not seeing a mass flow of people back into farming?
And if it is so successful, tell us why USA and EU which have long had the same deregulated market system recently introduced here, both have to subsidize their farmers to the tune of billions annually in guaranteed minimum prices, free all risk insurance, taxpayer funded promotion funding and farmer payments, for them to survive?
It wasn't criminal law that caught up with the SD Manager. It was the weak Govt pandering to the USA administration. No AWB person was ever tried and found guilty in a Criminal Court over the Iraq affair. And even if there had been, you don't stop using ships if you have a bad Captain on your staff do you. So stop using such pathetic propaganda. ADM is still in business isn't it despite being caught out for multiple breaches of corporate law.
Being a Rhodes scholar only indicates your high intellect but does not guarantee you know the answers to everything.
Why would a local retailer want to call ham from Denmark or orange juice from Brazil, Australian made just because it has Australian water in it? I suggest the answer is because "Australian Made" has a perceived premium. That being the case, why should we allow imported product to take that premium? WE SHOULD NOT. If a product like ham or cheese or fruit juice or any other primary produce has imported base product it is not Australian and should not get the "Australian Made" label, full stop. It is currently FALSE ADVERTISING and is a rip off.
Where are all the big mouths who are supposedly in favor of deregulation? Here is a real issue for you. Aussie farmers are required to meet the worlds most stringent and costly chemical and biosecurity regulations in the globe, and yet the same regulators allow imports which have not been subject to anything like our stringent and costly regulations to come in. I would have thought this would have been high on the deregulators agenda. But obviously they are all fakes with no morals or sense of equity at all.
Drowning in debt. Your story is very painful and sad indeed. The farming community has been gradually milked dry over some 50 years, by community and Governments. So have all private businesses. Our labour system is really a welfare system except that instead of it being in the welfare budget, it is included in the costs of business. All our inputs in goods and services are impacted and the effect is multiplied manifold. IN USA & EU, this is recognized and taxpayers pay the welfare bill. Here farmers and business pay it. That is inequitable and must change if Australia is to survive.
Yes Bob Phelps, we saw the panic in the handful of GM Canola supporters when the news carried the story of retail labeling of all GM products in USA recently. They are bludging on the bulk of Canola growers now by riding in on their coat tails to escape scrutiny by consumers, because they know that consumers are not seeking GM based products at all.
Productivity has always been the most successful path to freedom and improvement. You could take away every regulation except those assisting the disabled amongst us, and limiting the powerful from exploiting the rest of us by force, and in time we all would be better off. That is based on the premise that all people receive jobs, contracts, or payment in accordance with their productivity. So no more regulated wages and conditions which interfere with global market conditions.
Intellectuals who prepare reports into such things as global efficiency, have found that Australian farmers are not only the most highly productive industry in Australia but in the globe. Our Farmers today are growing many times more produce per man/hour than ever before. We are working around the clock as required. We are mastering land sustainability and quality of goods at worlds highest standards. Yet our $ per man/hour is lower than ever. At the same time, workers in the input and supply chain sectors & middlemen, work less efficiently & less hours & get more per man hour. Says it all.
The reason everybody is giving bushie a hard time and nobody is ganging up on Barnaby Hydatid, is because BJ is actually doing a reasonable job and bushie bill is being hypocritical and that is being polite.
It is interesting that someone with the tag "Logic" should say that "Logic", because I think logic has bushie bill hiding behind the door in the corner.
What about reopening the inquiry into the scandal surrounding the non existence of weapons of mass destruction, which were never found, and yet were used as the excuse to attack Iraq in the first place?
Angus, don't pussy foot around. Support the Bill from Chris Back and do it now. Put the brakes on the lunatics who are talking through their hat and are akin to terrorists, desperate to destroy livestock farming by whatever means, including illegal and lying. They are not rational and can not be reasoned with like normal adults.