Grain of Truth
Probably the most important issue missing from this opinion piece is the fact in defining ‘Foreign Investment’ as opposed to ‘Foreign Government Investment’.
Given that Foreign & Sovereign Governments have the power to print their own currency, it would then follow that if ‘Foreign Government Investment’ is considered or defined as ‘Foreign Investment’ in agriculture land then the lampooning of the libertarian free-market is complete and assured.
Agribuzz with David Leyonhjelm
freetradeessential - 28/10/2015 9:42:46 AM - yes free trade is essential but essentially useless if domestic regulation and taxes remove any gain provided by any abolished trade restrictions which increases our competiveness. The Senator understands this, pity you don’t. Best you change your name to – haventgotaclue.
Well said Senator. The prescribed Ag industries brain’s trust must now give thought to their collective market access roles & tax funding now that the Dept of Trade did their job for them, or whether there is actually any further need for their existence and their tax-eating producer sycophants given that the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP), the China Free Trade Agreement, the US Free Trade Agreement, the South Korean Free Trade Agreement and the Japan Free Trade Agreement are all about to be enacted into law for the CHfta and TPP and is already law for the USfta, SKfta and Jfta ??
“PAYG, when you suggest that only people with no brains join State Farmer Organisations. I would say to you, (based on many of your posts) "people in glass houses should not throw stones".” – argis……I’m just absolutely devastated that a comment referred, rusted-on and dwindling member of the referred obnoxious old boys club, that refuses to acknowledge or adopt the concept of any form of modernisation based on individual free-enterprise, would think that I live in a glass house. Throw all the stones you like mate, my house is made of a more modern material.
“There is a heap of money wasted on Senators. Need to find out which $$ need to be shaved off and save tax payers a whole lot of money!” – there’s even more money wasted on levy-funded, undemocratic, non-transparent, unsupported, socialistic bodies so it looks like that a priority list will need to be drawn up and the Senators will more than likely end up on the second page at least.
David – when you come up against the suffocating ‘old boys club’ you will always be misrepresented, misdirected and lied to and about. That’s the way this tax-eating club works and always has. Their problem, of course, is that their dwindling rusted on membership still believe that their model is not due for an overhaul. Stupidly, they believe that the 90% of farmers that are not members can be encouraged to join, or re-join, by constantly referring to them as ‘freeloaders’. Apparently, not having any brains is a prerequisite to becoming a member of the old boys club.
“Some people refer to this as market failure, which may be technically correct although those who like the market failure term tend not to have much faith in markets to start with.”: - David, not “…. some people…..” but the Government’s very own ‘Levies Principles & Guidelines’ with principle No 1 using ‘Must’ in the context of a market failure. The “Industries” apparatchiks are now trying to fund their advocacy/political bodies under this same evidence free and imaginary market failure regime. It’s time to sack the lot including the Government’s own unenforced and abused guidelines.
bronwyn - "It may even get our support." - Who's this 'Our' people that you say you speak for ? - "If you want people to engage with your thoughts....." – I made a comment and it was not a request for engagement. Try ‘Google’ with the search ‘phrase’ of ‘agriculture anti trust laws’ or better still, try reading Ludwig von Mises, Hayek or the father of modern economics Adam Smith.
Bronwyn you say in reference to my comment: - “…….magically bring about the level playing field for all farmers of the world?” – I’m definitely sure that my comment did not have any plans for - “……all the farmers of the world” - so I guess you will have to take that one back to your Pixies. You further ask: - “Please also tell us what your plan is to ensure our agricultural industries survive until you get your solution in place?” – So your Pixies want my mixed farming business plan for distribution to the collective eh ?
Agriculture commodities are the most corrupt markets known to man, from the largest of manipulators in the form of the US’s farm bill thru the EU’s production subsidies to the local agriculture commodity protection guaranteed by tariffs and of course not forgetting the ever present commodity ‘Speculator’. Australia’s answer to all this corruption is to establish crony controlled quasi-statutory authorities that are little more than domestic ‘regulators’ pushing up the cost of production. – dump the lot. It’s time to get serious and introduce an agriculture specific anti-trust act.
Makka - "Seems I am Right, Not 1 AA zealot has responded to my Question." - Not quite correct Makka. Michael B @ 17/06/2014 6:39:45 AM answered with this classical offering of the fallacy of the Strawman – “Makka, So because other countries would do bad things we should too? So we should allow child slavery in Australia because other countries do?” – You will also note that exporting coal is also akin to endorsing child slavery. But they are not done yet, wait for LE being labelled as to a denial that smoking causes cancer. Shouldn’t be long now.
A matter of opinion
"The one consideration that our beef producers should perhaps ask themselves about the GRSB is: Why is Cattle Council and the Fitzroy Basin Association, representing beef producers from a First World, democratic country, with an excellent reputation in science and land management and animal husbandry, entertaining the idea of subjecting those same producers to an authority which is not their government?" – because they have been Prescribed in the Structure via Regulation to do so; a structure that Fairfax Media has supported for more than 15 years.
So Dalby – Did you ring DAFF yet ? – get a grip mate and read what I originally said @ 14/06/2014 10:56:59 AM after which your better half (aka – CFA), who thought he/she was Barry, thought it would be real smart to commented on my comment without having the slightest clue what he/she was talking about or what a relevant fact is or even know what the meaning of 'ideology' is. -
GFA - The point - AWB, acting as a Government monopoly organisation under the Single Desk, traded in the physical commodity – Wheat – and the Government guaranteed grower payments because the Constitution guarantee’s compensation where there is a compulsory acquisition of property. – I think that you are about done, btw, did you check out whether levies are taxes & did you check up on the WIF & did you work out how a Statutory Authority could list on the ASX & did you ever have a clue what you were talking about & next time how about you mine your own business, you’re not Barry mate ?
Dalby – Quick you had better tell that to DAFF: - “......... The AWB did not purchase wheat as the Wheat Stabilisation Act and subsequent legislation provided for the compulsory acquisition of all wheat produced in Australia. Even after the deregulation of the domestic market in 1989 removed compulsory acquisition for wheat consumed within Australia, it has remained a fact that virtually all Australian wheat destined for export must be acquired by one organisation.” - http://data.daff.gov.au/data/ware house/pe_abarebrs99000909/PC12517 .pdf
GFA – the single desk was government intervention that established a government ‘Monopoly Marketing’ scheme that commenced in 1939, some 30 years before I was born. The marketing scheme turned on the ‘Compulsory Acquisition’ by the government of all the Wheat, and later on only Wheat destined for export, to establish the monopoly business. The Govt, thru the Single Desk, then took control of the commodity and traded it, domestically and internationally, with the proceeds going back to the growers to comply with ‘on just terms’ as the guarantee states. It’s ‘Eminent Domain’ mate.
GFA – you say that I ‘believe’: - “……but you are in denial if you believe the Government killed the Single Desk by accident.” – Really ? - How would you know what I ‘Believe’ mate ? – If you really want to know, I strongly believe, and because the Govt intervened in this manner, that they (the Govt) did it ‘Purposefully’ otherwise they would not have allowed AWB to list on the Stock Exchange in the very first instance. You see, in the allowance of anything, it is usually done with forethought mate, which includes the conceptual misuse of levies.
Dalby – yes I was a supporter of the single desk for the export of wheat before the WIF debacle. After however, I withdrew my support on the grounds that it seemed to me to be reprehensible to levy (tax) growers only for those funds to be used as market capital for a company to list on the ASX. Under the Government’s own ‘Levies Principals & Guidelines’ levies can only be engaged by industry only where there is an identified market failure. In my view misusing the levy by allowing the listing of AWB and the Govt’s removal of AWB’s borrowings guarantee was the end of the single desk.
Jock - No argument with that from here, I know how it was all supposed to work particularly with the WIF controlling a fair bit of my (totally wasted) compulsory levy money, but that is not what GFA has been bangin’ on about – relevant facts and other crap. - My point is simple; that Governments intervened in the first instance with Ag industry regulatory structures and regulatory levies AND then with further intervention (with little knowledge of the consequences) in these same Ag ‘Structures’ brought these industries to their knees. Gov caused the market failure !!
GFA: - you say that I implied – “Using that point to put down the massive benefit of grower marketing power via the SD system is clearly erroneous.” – What I actually said in relation to AWB mate was this @ 14/06/2014 10:56:59 AM – “It was ‘government intervention’ that ultimately led to the demise of the ‘single desk’ in allowing AWB to publicly list on the ASX using $365 million in growers levies (tax)” – now go away and learn to read.
GFA – hee….heee you say: - “….your use of the word tax was misleading. Tax is what we pay to the Govt to do what they will with. That levy was agreed to by growers…….” – fair dinkum…..hee….hee…so exactly when is a ‘Levy’ not a ‘Tax’ ? Quick you had better rush and tell the Gov & High Court that one mate. Where do you think levies go mate ? – hint – they go to the Government via the ‘Levies Collection Unit’ into Consolidated Revenue and from there they are ‘Appropriated’ back out via an ‘Appropriation Bill’ for its designated purpose. Fair dinkum…..what planet are you on ?
GFA - $365 mil of grower’s levies siphoned into the ‘Wheat Industry Fund’ (WIF) that was then redirected as part of their market capital to list. What don't you read, I stated this before mate. For many growers, including me, that was the day that the single-desk crumbled.
Fair-dinkum DAFF staff seem to operate in some sort of parallel universe. Take a look at the structured organisations administered and funded (via levies) under the DAFF umbrella and how these same organisations are hell bent on destroying any chance of any form of on-farm profitability thru so-called ‘Industry Programs & Regulations’.
Sounds like an avalanche of inward looking cluelessness, or perhaps Barnaby is getting ready to refund the compliance costs of his department’s over the top authoritarian regulations placed on family farmers.
Mr hart says: - “He is advocating a non-aligned, independent body, possibly similar to the Australian Football League's official governing authority, the AFL Commission, to swiftly make peak industry judgments and strategies for the good of the whole sector.” – So Mr hart is advocating that a ‘Body’ should make unauthorised business decisions for businesses that the ‘Body’ is neither a shareholder of or have an interest in?
It’s starting to get a little monotonous for farmers becoming the whipping boy for Australia’s international obligations so that all Australians can feel morally superior without the need to pay for this warm and fuzzy feeling, from locking up private land to meet the now redundant Kyoto obligations to banning live cattle exports to Indonesia to imposing Australian law on foreign sovereign countries thru ESCAS.
"The Federal Government only exists because of permission from the States.......": - What total crap Percy. The 'States' are not 'Colonies' renamed (see the Mobile Oil case).
Describing MLA as an ‘Organisation’ is breathtakingly ignorant to start off with. When was the last time that the functionality derived from a tax and spent according to law makers powers called an ‘Organisation’ ? – Unfortunately Mr Norton will not be able to perform any other duties other than those ‘Prescribed’ by the MoU and ‘Deed of Agreement’ made between the government corporation called MLA and the Federal Government. Everything else is just gimmicks, like saying: - “…..marketing the best product in the world……” – So how much of this product does MLA have ownership of ? – None.
Samg – you say: - “I have seen first hand the value of MLA international offices and I shudder at the thought of the government handling trade issues and importation hold ups.” – So you reckon that one accountable government department is worse than the other unaccountable government department (MLA) eh ? – Here’s a thought……..if you want this type of ‘compulsory’ structure you and your CCA mates fund it. I would even allow you and your CCA mates to keep all the benefits for yourselves but remember, don’t let the empty tent concern you as it appears to be doing now.
Samg – you say specifically: - “And particularly the Sth Americans envied our set up.” – As you would be aware Sth America is low cost of production, so you are effectively saying that they are envious of not being able to increase their cost of production thru a suffocating regulatory framework to match that of the lowest farm-gate priced Cattle in the world. Yeah……that would be logical/sarc
Samg – it’s good that you support ‘Regulatory’ levies and ‘Regulatory’ industry bodies. I on the other hand don’t. Given that there is absolutely no evidence to support any correlation between paying levies that fund industry structures and increased farm-gate returns, and instead of telling everybody to get involved to discuss the liability of the compelled benefit; why not support a plebiscite to see what everyone else wants to do? Of course this would mean that the ‘Regulatory’ bodies, or the levies collection unit, would need to identify all levy payers just the same as the ATO.
“In an internal investor briefing paper, Kaplan Equity said it started buying the two companies at the end of 2013 when both AACo and Ruralco "had depressed earnings and share prices" due to drought, Indonesia's ban on livestock exports, low cattle prices…….”: - All this “shrewdness” is simply breathtaking/sarc. Yep, “fortune telling” is the “shrewd” business to be in; now what did the old bones say ?
Here’s the bottom line, see if Fairfax can hear it,…………..I no longer care……….got it ? Tell it to those poor stupid activists that were stuck on a boat, in more ice than what is in your average shot of Whiskey.
As a grain producer this is simply the best news story for the grains sector that I have heard in all my years of grain production. It’s not the end all or be all but, it’s an impressive start.
Having the ability, at the very least, to be able to insure essentially for the enormous up-front costs of production of grain, which should include any associated leased/mortgage machinery costs, as a percentage value of an expected crop value/yield will be of enormous benefit of itself.
“As extreme weather daily hammers down the forecast yields of northern hemisphere crops,……………”
Because ‘Extreme’ journalist’s keep using the word ‘Extreme’ to describe that which occurs intermittently and entirely naturally, it is of little wonder that people have turned off rags like this and more specifically Fairfax media in general.
What’s the latest share price ???
Are these research idiots trying to tell everyone that they have research evidence on the 2 Decadal Oscillations (Pacific & Atlantic) that is longer than 30 years ??
This would be a neat trick given that each event is supposed to be 20 to 30 years in duration.
The research grants lucky-dip sideshow must be open for business………….again.
holisticmick – You say: “Look at getting farmers off the input spiral they are on. Moron thinking (more on and more on)” – “Do us a favor look into carbon farming if you are really concerned about grain growers,…………”
Besides ‘Carbon farming’ exactly what other “input spiral” will the ‘Carbon tax’ get “Farmers Off”; will it be the input spiral of machinery purchase and maintenance, the input spiral of energy to run our machinery, the input spiral of infrastructure building and maintenance, the input spiral of the transport of farm produce, or the input spiral of statutory charges as a result of Government’s own costs going up as a result of their own tax ??
Do us a favour mate, change your name to ‘reductionistmick’ !!!
Mark2 – You lost me here mate when you said: “I wonder how manageable any conference would be if every member turned up to argue their case on every issue ?”
A ‘Conference’ is one thing however; an ‘Annual General Meeting’ (AGM) is an entirely different animal. How indeed does BHP or Rio or any other publicly listed company control those pesky ‘Shareholders’, you know the ones that own the company. /sarc
You ask: “Which organisation/s in Australia have a conference that doesn't have elected delegates????” (answer) All of them, because a conference is just a bloody conference, where attendance is usually either voluntary or by invitation and, is either a public conference or a private conference.
get over it – Thank you for that clarification. It appears that any criticism of the structure of GPA specifically in relation to voting entitlements by any members of NSWFA is somewhat hypocritical.
Dave Mailer – ‘Perceived’ facts are not facts either mate.
You say – “GPA gives everyone a voice,………………”
What you left out mate is, “GPA gives everyone a voice” only to the extent of how much, or little tax one pays.
Why is it that people speaking on their own behalf are "Embarassing" to you mate? I know, these embarassing people shouldn't be allowed to vote because they may find your definition of "transparency" a little different to theirs.
Editor - thanks for that.
It does seem that the export 'Traders' learnt absolutely nothing in the half century or so that they were locked out of the export market by the single desk. May be they need another 50 years or so to think further about it !!!!
View all recent article comments - WHY? one can't follow the discussion without a 'search', so why bother ?
This will be the last comment from me until you put the comments back the way they were before.
(**PAYG - comments pages is being updated as we speak, it will be a new interface hopefully even more user-friendly than the previous version, let us know what you think once it's released - cheers, Editor)
Joyce – “He said; agriculture was also now on the National Security Committee;…” John Anderson (deputy PM under Howard) said much the same thing in 1997 and then proceeded to regulate the bejesus out of us. Message to Joyce, we already have miles too much regulation suffocating agriculture, so if it is all the same to you and the Nat’s bugger off.
@ Archibald - He never had any intention of fixing anything in the Cattle sector. He got caught with his pants down when he thought that the usual collective would be the only one's that would put submissions into his very own inquiry. The responses shocked him resulting in a new parlarliamentary entitlement, ear plugs for tin ears.
Yes Barney’s decisive political credentials are strong for any position that requires sitting on one’s hands while watching one’s partners thieve property rights to save the world from the evils of food & fibre production, or perhaps mowing the lawn because it’s green, or putting up a hill’s hoist in the backyard because it’s not sustainable. The National’s are strong enforcers for the 10% good old boy’s to retain dishonest control of farmers & their registered businesses, just in case a farmer may make a business decision all on his/her own. Barney’s the 1 for a 2 party commie system.
When it is all said and done the Department of Agriculture is nothing more than a suffocating politburo with its very own taxing powers and a department where the words "free enterprise" have absolutely no meaning. It’s probably about time the levies collection unit in the Department of Agriculture was closed down with the ATO taking over this responsibility instead.
mark2 - you ask: - “PAYG, your thoughts on "bringing it back to the local level" sound good but can you give us any ideas on how that can be achieved without the self interested and the manipulators shoe-horning in on policy?”: - I thought my thoughts were written in plain English – “Sack the national peak bodies……..”. It is in these bodies that the “……self interested and the manipulators shoe-horning in on policy” manifest their delusions of grandeur.
“Mr Cobb said the NFF was at its strongest when it dealt with factional issues “on the basis of economics” to reach policy solutions that improved agriculture’s profitability, while State Farming Organisations dealt with social issues.” – Err….Cobby, SFOs performing nothing more than chook raffles and cake bake-offs could be the very reason why SFOs are on life support, I mean, their shrinking gene pool for SFO appointment to the disgraceful national peak bodies could lead to even more ineptitude. Sack the national peak bodies and bring it all back to the local level, mate.
“To get this far, 20+ years of operation of the RDCs reveals the real level of keenness to be open, transparent, and genuinely accountable to those farmers actually paying the 'money in'. Next step, hopefully, is being able to calculate an individual return on investment (i.e. benefit out)....not just 'an estimate'.” – hee….heeee….I can honestly say that after paying these taxes for the past 20 + yrs I cannot account for $0.01 cent of ROI on my balance sheet.
“……………..ensure the mistakes of the past are not repeated!” – Of course Mr Hill is joking ? The mistakes of the past include bare faced lying about anything that is contrary to their political ideology including that MLA is a producer owned corporation subject to the rules applied by ASIC, lie, increasing the cost of production by interfering in the property and business activities of their politically assigned constituency, wasting taxpayers money on stupid frivolous programs that don’t pass the smell test etc. Only a full judicial inquiry, audit & jail time can fix this mess.
These young generational delusionals don’t have the faintest clue about secure title. Separating land from its vegetation is about as moronic as it can get and the clueless generation wants that to continue. For a livestock grazing business & with secure title, making a living under this separation without being hauled before the courts as a criminal in times of drought is playing tag with a brown snake. Best these delusionals stick to what they know best, which is nothing. Do they realise that it was the Australian government that shut down the live ex and not our overseas partners ?
Heee……..heee…… maybe these young farming turks think they can cook the books the same way that the temperature records have been cooked? Unfortunately a farming business is based on reality where exaggerating and/or fabricating the before and after results usually ends in lamentable excuses. The extended absurdity being that probably these or no farmers would be in business today if they tried to farm in a climate that existed pre 1750. Can’t wait for the next batch of 100 year Computer Climate Models to be manipulated before releasing there doom.
VeganBrown - your name suggests that the purpose of any animal cruelty, perceived or otherwise, is to further a means to your ideological ends, wherein, you and your ‘vegan’ mates use emotional misdirection to disguise your political agenda which is to have banned the consumption of all meat – white and red. Come on mate, step out from behind the disguise and ante up to the social licence that you believe that you have that would force others to accept your life choices above their own.
Hungry? - you say: - "Just as they are realising the benefits a of stunning, not only in practicality, but on ethical grounds ,enhancing welfare standards and social perception.": - Self-awareness mate. Your self-righteous delight that ESCAS can be used as social engineering tool in another sovereign nation ferments itself in the peculiar and notorious Australian (by birthright) practise of publicising its ‘Elitism’ as nothing more than sheer ‘Arrogance’. Sorry Hungry? but your arrogance is only topped by your ignorance, which is an education problem.
“Collisions with stationary objects (42 percent) followed……………….” – fair dinkum, this sounds like it is more important that they get their eyes checked, blind as bats comes to mind……..how about a free plug for OPSM. So what share of the blame does the stationary object wear and, how many of these stationary objects were admitted to hospital ?
Thanks for that Jock. You have just quoted the two stock standard options that quintessentially defines the NFF. (1) – voluntary uptake, or (2) – the Government will intervene. Apparently there is no room for option (3) or perhaps the Elephant in the room.
Option (3) – put the undiluted facts on the table and let them speak for themselves and let the political penny drop where it may.